What started as my usual late-night, last-minute glance at Facebook turned into a two hour Facebook exposé, generating over 250 comments from viewers, which then prompted me to reach out the kind folks here at ParentingTodaysKids.com to see if they wanted to run it. Twenty-four hours later, here we are.
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Thoughtful and well researched, just what I would expect from the author! Thank you for giving us something to think about.
Very good article. I do actually see both sides of it after reading this. The school is not being too harsh, especially considering that the online courses for pregnant teens that study from home are provided by the charter school. They still want students to succeed.
Very well written with good balanced reporting thank you.
Many women work full time up through their seventh or eighth month. What is the real reason they don’t want pregnant teens in school? Because they want them to be ostracized, that’s why. Fix that and the problem goes away.
Mr. Jordan, i am a bit surprised with this….as i already pointed out on your facebook page…home study through that school still makes them students. Said pregnant teens gpa and graduating status still configures into the average. So how can anyone claim that is why they are doing it? My speculation is that its a bunch of bible thumpers not unlike many commenting on your page who dont their precious children influenced by those little harlets who had the audacity to turn up pregnant. If it was about funding, they would expel them. And they arent…which is why my personal opinion is that it is nothing more than discrimination…almost like a charter school equivalent of the holocaust….get rid of the undesireables. Their motives are in their actions.
Chrissy,
I won’t argue that point. Like I mentioned on Facebook, I aggregated these thoughts based on the tremendous amount of well-thought-out comments and questions from others. I’m not sure in this instance if the pregnant girls that are in home-study are treated different with regards to students that are enrolled in on-campus classes. It’s another question I’d love to see an answer to.
Again, none of these scenarios are designed to make an excuse for the activities of Delhi Charter school, only to pose as examples for what could be behind-the-scenes information that we haven’t been given answers to.
I’m with the majority in feeling like their actions were unwarranted and feeling like it’s an unfair policy. I’d just REALLY like to know the entire story behind WHY it is a policy at all.
(I should say “was” a policy. According to the web, the school seems to be in the process of changing the policy now after threat of lawsuit from the ACLU.)
The logic fails, Tommy. Sorry, but it does. And, nothing here covers the fact that no matter what the dollars and cents break down to this is a clearly sexist proposal. In what was does taking the pregnant girls out of the curriculum affect the bottom line? Are they no longer considered to be students, and therefore not counted in the totals at the end of the graduating school year? Their ‘followup’ allowing girls to finish schooling at home is a cop out; do they then count the girls if they finish and not count them if they don’t? That is dishonest, isn’t it? Not to mention, I do understand funding difficulties because I used to do fundraising, but the simple fact is that you *do* have a choice not to take money from donors if the requirements are unreasonable. There are other donors. This is more a matter of using donor demands as an excuse for rules you can secretly agree with but publicly wring your hands over and declare, “Well, I understand how you feel but my hands are tied, it’s not my fault it’s the donors *sigh*”… Sorry, not buying. This is disgusting, and there is no amount of whitewash that will cover it. They are treating pregnancy as if it were some kind of filthy disease that needs to be hidden away. And I have another question: If teen pregnancy is such an issue to this school, what are they doing to combat it other than hide away or turn away the failures? What programs do they have in place, what kind of sex ed takes place in this school in order to give these kids every tool to fight this so-terrible problem? I see both sides of the issue too, from the standpoint of the school and the donors, but so far I don’t see anyone on the GIRL’s side. Color me unimpressed.
Sorry if this is a dup, last attempt to post it didn’t show up…
I just wanted to point out that your bio blurp (Author Overview) has a typo (noted below). I thought you’d like to know.
“… her Facebook post that ended with him shootings her laptop eight times”
should be: “.. him shooting her laptop …”.
Thanks Jeff. I didn’t write my Bio. lol. The editor’s did. I’ll see if they can get on that! I appreciate you letting me know.
This is a very well written article and I appreciate how the author actually took his time to look into this subject. Too often articles are very biased and almost form our opinions for us. This is very refreshing to read.
As for the subject at hand I have conflicted feelings about the school picking the doctor the teen in question will go to but as it is stated in the schools policy it’s not very surprising. At least the school opts to work with these students through an at home program. Pregnant and working was hard for me because I was constantly sick I could imagine if I was in school and had to request to go to the bathroom every time I was sick or had to use the bathroom. I think more schools should have at home programs for their pregnant teens so they can actually graduate rather than dropping out.
RE: DNA testing of the boys.
They could make it a condition of enrollment that all students submit a sample for DNA testing purposes. Make the students pay for it ahead of time.
Then if they have a need to evaluate DNA evidence, the samples are already gathered and analyzed. No further expenses would be needed.
I see both sides as well. My idea of a solution that would be more humane, is not forcing them to take a pregnancy test, but rather if they suspect someone to be pregnant making them come back with a doctor’s note stating they are or are not. I do agree that the homeschool option is a very good option, and not cold-hearted.
Great article! If more people would take the time to read the entire thing and stop jumping to conclusions about a kids rights being violated they might understand where the school is coming from… They aren’t trying to demonize the young lady in question (although I do agree the boy in the situation SHOULD be held just as culpable as the young lady, it does after all take 2 to make a baby) They give her the opportunity to continue her education and still be part of her school.
which leads me to the question of vouchers in the first place…so now parent “x” has taken her kids and her tax dollars to the charter school…leaving parents “a”, “b”, “c”, “d”, “e”, etc’s children in a traditional public school that now has even LESS funding…yes it’s easy to say well “a”, “b”, “c” can take THEIR kids to the charter school too, but in reality there are any number of reasons why they can’t.
like flat taxes, vouchers are a scam. they are draining money away from public schools and making public schools worse. most charter schools cost several times the voucher amount leaving many children stranded in worsening school situations…which overall is worse for all of us.
I can see your point but I don’t think it’s the “fault” of a charter school that public schools are losing funding.
If, let’s say, 50 parents feel like their kids are going to a school that’s NOT serving their needs (much like mine does in my opinion), and they have an option to take THEIR tax money to send their kids to a school they believe is better for their children, then more power to them.
Some charter schools are undoubtedly great, and usually founded because of a lack of something in the local system. You can’t denegrate Charter schools because the public system continues to degenerate around them.
Very good writing. This article was well researched and very informative. Better then most “main stream” articles being written today. I agree, after reading this article, that it seems the school still wants to help the pregnant teen by offering home study. It is good that the girl can still get the proper education which will go a long way towards her and her baby’s future
Very well done. Thanks for doing all the pesky research for those of us who like all sides of the story. Couple of things from my perspective (which with $3 will get you a cup of coffee from Starbucks). One, usually schools(at least private-ish schools) require that parents read and sign off on the code of conduct/handbook EACH year. So you should not run into the situation where you signed your child up when she was 7 and you are now having to worry about this issue as a 10th grader. The parents would have had to have signed the agreement this year. Plus MOST parents never think their child would end up in that situation. Two, if they knowingly agreed to and signed off on the handbook KNOWING that the policy was in there, and are now upset because the school is actually following said policy, then my general attitude is “sucks to be you if you don’t like the fact we are holding to the policy you signed off on”. Three, biggest lie told these days is … “I have read and agree to the above {insert sign off for any handbook, TOS, terms and conditions} and will comply with all guidelines.” Now dig out your $3 and head to Starbucks….
Where do you live that $3 will buy coffee at a Starbucks? That’s what I wanna know!
Seriously, you raised another good point. Maybe these schools change policies on a semi-annual basis. If they do, parent’s would re-sign the acceptance of the policy each year. Maybe it’s just required to sign it each year regardless. Either way, you raise one more good question about the system we [parents] need to know when considering sending our children to a charter school.
Good article, Tommy. There was one thing that caught my attention, however:
“The argument is being made by some that “Well, you agreed to it when you enrolled your student.” Again, I find myself feeling like “well, yeah I did, but little Suzie was seven years old at the time and I really didn’t think about her being 14 and pregnant when I enrolled her here nine years ago.”
About this: Where I live, even in the public school (and yes, we have a charter school here as well), the contract between the school and the student/parents must be signed ANNUALLY.
What would be your response to a repeat customer who signed a contract to have you do work for them and then said later “Well, I didn’t actually READ it! I just figure it must be the same as the last contract we had!” when, in fact, it wasn’t.
Because that would be my response to the parent who did the same with regard to their kid’s education contract.
Charters are for profit schools, period. They pick and chose who they take. At least in Florida, most of the charters suck. Of the 36 F schools in the State, 15 were charter. Many are fraudulent and all are basically unregulated. Florida was ranked 11th in achievement in education. We are 47th in per pupil spending and 49th in teacher pay. Maybe if we put money into education things would be better. The goal of Charter schools is to make money off of your children.
This article was very informative, yet I am left with one lingering question that was not addressed…Are these girls allowed to come back to school after giving birth? The answer to that question would make a dramatic difference on some peoples opinion of the situation.
I find myself conflicted on this issue in some ways, as are most people from what I read in all the comments. I was a pregnant teen many years ago. The school I went to did NOT prohibit pregnant teens, but instead offered them extra classes designed for them as soon to be moms. While I chose at the time to drop out (I later got my GED and resumed my education), I know that many girls didn’t find these extra classes very helpful. But hey, at least our school was trying to keep these pregnant teens in school to help them graduate.
Now as an adult mom of 3 daughters, I feel as though pregnant teens should be encouraged to continue their education. However, I think they should be segregated from the general population of the rest of the school. Maybe at an off-campus location or a separated portion of the campus….Now before I get blasted for my opinion, let me explain….From personal experience, seeing pregnant teens at my school kind of gave me the impression that being a teen and pregnant was perfectly acceptable in society. Even to the point that being pregnant was better because the pregnant girls got to take special fluffy classes that were no where near as difficult as the non-pregnant teen curriculum. Now do you see where this is going? Seeing those pregnant girls everyday at school shifted something in our thought processes…Making it Okay to say yes to boys who wanted to have sex. Making teenage hormones have more control than morals, religious beliefs, and our parents all rolled into one. Seeing pregnant teens at school gave us a sense that being pregnant was no big deal because things will be the same…
Do non-pregnant teens really need to be subjected to THAT?
The mother in me says HELL NO…the mother in me says keep those pregnant girls away from my daughters because I don’t want my kids thinking it’s OK or Cool to become pregnant.
The pregnant teen I used to be says….Offer these girls an education at a location other than the main campus of school. Somewhere, that the pregnant teens still take all of the regular classes plus extra courses such at Cooking, Household Budgeting, etc.
I do think that these pregnant girls should have as much help as possible in order to graduate. I just think that they shouldn’t be paraded in front of the non-pregnant students like it’s no big deal to be a pregnant teen…..believe me, it’s a big deal, it changes your entire world.
Very good article Tommy.Well researched and informative.I really had no idea as to how a charter school works.Now i see it from the charter school prospective.
Once again I find myself in awe of Tommy for giving it to us straight. I’m the parent of two grown girls and a 17 year old son; and I can see how this looks from both sides. My son was one of those children that public school didn’t work for because he has ADHD. We chose to try a charter school and it really seemed to be a good fit. Unfortunately, the school had to close due to lack of funding. Ultimately we chose home schooling…… I can only pray that the pregnant teen has wonderful parents that can help her to get past all tbis and go on to live a good life and better choices in the future. I think the biggest lesson from all this is to educate your children of the hazards of premarital, unprotected sex. Not that parents should condone these things but be open with their children so they can come to their parents for help before an accident happens. Love your children no matter what!
While the arguments may make sense, there is one fact that has not been addressed at all and is still of utmost importance. That is that, as a school which receives federal funding, via those vouchers or however they get it, MUST abide by federal law, which includes Title IX and that means that it is illegal to have this policy, regardless of what their private donors want an they must consider the law when they seek this private funding and nnot make such deals.
I kind of agree and kind of disagree. If charter schools, by and large, are community schools, funded by the “State” (not federal) tax payments of the parents of the students enrolled, then within limits I think they SHOULD be able to set most any precedent the school’s membership agrees with. After all, these are often started in places where children are already having a difficult time getting a good education, so parents and communities are taking it on themselves to educate the kids. Now, while I certainly might not agree with some decisions a charter school makes, I think they should have more leeway than a regular public school when deciding what their policies are.
The article is good, but I don’t agree about the Federal funding. Absolutely every article I can find explaining what a charter school is, says they receive state and federal funding and more so than your average public school, but still makes them very much a public school. And the only difference is they don’t have to follow most educational requirements because they create a charter and must follow the charter. I can’t find a single thing that says they don’t get federal funding and it’s hard to argue about them getting their money from local taxes because every single public school does. So the problem sounds like it’s not a donor thing, but a charter thing because they are not required to follow the same rules as everyone else. And if it really is a donor problem, then why take money from a donor that has that kind of requirement? Why create a regulation they know will effect a number of students? If 70% of all teen pregnancies result in a drop out and Louisiana in particular has the 6th highest number of teen pregnancies it seems they are actively discriminating against those girls. Last year alone Louisiana had 11,560 teenage girls get pregnant. With the vast majority of those teens being non-white students. This is not to say it’s a racial problem, but it does effect non-whites more than whites. It seems to me that Louisiana should be working harder to get teens to not get pregnant and then working with them when they do.
http://www.thenationalcampaign.org/state-data/state-profile.aspx?state=louisiana
Someone else had a very valid argument about homeschooling them because as long as the student remains on their books (whether at home or not) that student affects their numbers. Not to mention Brown vs Board of Education made it illegal to have “separate but equal” education because it created an environment that deprived the children of equal opportunities, created significant psychological and social disadvantages and that that inferiority created a lack motivation to learn.
This is not just an issue of funding. The issues to me seem to be 1) Why accept that agreement against Title IX regulations? 2) Why allow that rule when it creates a lack of motivation to learn and psychological and social disadvantages?
On a personal level why punish only the girls caught simply because the ability to ascertain the father is too difficult? Why continue this Victorian idea that girls getting knocked up should be sent to the country until they give birth? That it is a deep, dark, horrible secret? Wouldn’t it be better to SHOW teens the hardship of being pregnant and the hard work involved after giving birth?
To me…it’s quite simple. They are a federally funded school (no matter how much of their actual funding comes from the federal government) and as such are considered a public school and even though they aren’t required to follow some rules, they are required to follow Title IX and therefore are NOT allowed to discriminate based on sex. One rule for everyone.
On a semi-related note, as I’ve been reading the hundreds of news headlines covering the issue I’ve stumbled across what seems to be a common theme (mostly coming from mothers that were teenagers themselves, but occasionally reinforced by free-spirited adults that think this new generation has their head screwed on straight.)
What I will only assume to be parents are responding to other commenters’ thoughts with a collective “there’s nothing wrong with being pregnant as a teenager in high-school.” I’m sorry… the what did you say?
Respectfully, as a parent, AND one who was a parent as a teen, and one who’s daughter’s mother was ALSO a parent as a teen, I completely disagree. I’m going to preface that with a clarification of what I personally mean by “teen.”
13 – You finally have the word “teen” added to your name. You’re still a child.
14 – You’re still a child.
15 – You’re still a child.
16 – Hopefully you’re growing up, but the only new privelege you have is driving to the store to get milk and even that is limited, so we collectively agree you’re still a child.
17 – You MIGHT be graduating high-school this year, so OK, you’re becoming an adult.
18- You can die for your country – you’re grown. Like it or not, parents had 18 years to get it right and if they didn’t, it’s too late. You’re a legal adult in all senses of the word.
19- Needs a new name.. they’re too old to be called teens
So, in my mind, as a parent, with the exception of being adult enouth to make your own decisions affecting your own life at 18, you’re a child yourself still until then. And as a child, I don’t think we (parents) need to enforce that it’s OK to be popping out kids at 15, 16, or even 17. Yes, it’s going to happen. Lots of things happen that shouldn’t in life. Aside from the fact that, we collectively seem to agree that it’s a bad decision for a school to treat them differently, I think somewhere out there parents need to agree that it’s NOT OK to be having babies as a young teenager.
By and large there are certain generalities that can be assumed broad-spectrum. Some of those are:
-It makes it much more difficult for you to finish high-school. (Statistically proven).
-It makes is much more difficult for you to enter, pay for, excel in college. (Statistically proven.)
- Whether or not you go to college, it makes the job market for an emerging adult ridiculously more difficult. (Statistically proven.)
Do all teenage mothers suffer these problems? No. Some are forced to grow up mentally, emotionally, and spiritually and somehow manage to grin and bear it and claw their way through and stay on top the whole time. But I think we can agree that’s not a majority or likely even a double-digit percentage of the teen mothers that can say that.
So, NO, it’s NOT OK for schools to discriminate against pregnant teenage girls. But NO, it’s NOT OK either to set the premise that having sex at 13, 14, 15 is a character trait we want in our kids.
I’d also say the one thing I see as missing from this discussion is what a bad idea “Charter Schools” are to begin with. This problem goes to illustrate the conflict of interests that abound with the idea. A “Charter School,” as a business has to server those needs first, not a student.
This is why civilized people have developed governments to centralize and administer functions that make a society better for everyone by taking over certain functions from the private sector. I didn’t work for fire fighting, police, military etc. to be private and it certainly doesn’t work for schools or even health care for that matter.
It is frustrating to hear misguided conservatives rail against “big government” when they enjoying all the benefits of it. Charter Schools are another misguided conservative sound bite that we’re stuck waisting time realizing are not serving public good, but their own bottom line. I all the 25 countries ahead of the United States in scores, education is funded by the government. Maybe government funding is not the problem.
There are ways to solve the education problems in our country. They’ll require a lot of discussion, wisdom, resources and effort. I’m not so sure that the google research by someone who is a self proclaimed “parent expert’ who censors and deletes comments on his pages to make himself look better and thinks he deserves the right to use threat of lethal force is a good place to start.
http://www.johnythegame78r2.com
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